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tv   Piers Morgan Tonight  CNN  November 7, 2011 12:00am-1:00am EST

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special, "restoring the american dream: fixing education." you can read more of my thoughts in a "time" essay. join me for my regular program, "gps," sundays at 10:00 a.m. and 1:00 p.m. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com tonight, one of the most powerful women in america, condoleezza rice. the ultimate bush white house insider. why does she say dick cheney attacked her integrity? why did she threaten to resign after 9/11? and what did she really think about moammar gadhafi's crush on her? >> quite extraordinary. and weird and a bit creepy. >> condoleezza rice, no holds barred. and electing a president. >> as americans why can't we see a nonpartisan ticket that's focused on governing? the only reason we can't see it is because the parties won't
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allow it and that's note a good enough reason. >> and john wayne's son. why he sold hundreds of his prized possessions. this is "piers morgan tonight." welcome back, dr. rice. we last spoke in january. that was when i first launched the show. it's been pretty quiet since then. what's really happened? the arab spring up risings, bin laden's been killed, gadhafi's been killed, mubarak overthrown. we've had the biggest financial crisis we have ever seen and we've got a guy who used to sell pizzas running your party's charge to take on the president. pretty quiet. >> it's been a busy several months. that's absolutely right. >> what do you make of the whole herman cain phenomenon? because it is a phenomenon. he's come pretty much from nowhere to storm the gop ratings. he's engulfed in maybe scandal. we don't really know the full extent of it yet. but what do you think of him personally? >> i don't actually know him.
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but this is what our primary season is all about. he's an interesting person. he has an interesting background. obviously, a lot of business experience. and he's sort of shaking up the race. i don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, but this will all settle out over the next several months, and the republican party will choose a nominee, but our primaries tend to be a little bit like this. >> reading your book, obviously you make a big play of saying no one needs to tell you how to feel as a black american, as a black woman. when you see the charge of potential racism in the herman cain case, people saying that people are only going after him because he is a black conservative, do you think that holds any merit? >> well, i actually don't like playing the race card on either side. i don't like it when people say that the criticism of president obama is because he is black. the criticism is because he's the president and we tend to criticize our presidents. so i really don't like playing the race card on either side. obviously, i view myself as a
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black republican, as someone who can stand up for myself, and as i have often said, i don't need anyone to tell me how to be black. i've been black all my life, and if you don't like my political views, then that's really too bad. >> what do you think of the gop race generally? it's been fluctuating wildly over the last couple of months. i guess it may still fluctuate. mitt romney has been the steady eddie, if you like. consistently polling around the 25% mark. others have leapt above him and then crashed below again. what can we read into this, from your experience? >> well, i don't think you can read anything in at this point. we really will get a much better view, a much better barometer of how to think about this race after the first of the year, after the first primaries. so, you know, i was associated with a campaign very closely in 2,000, the george w. bush campaign, going all the way back, really, to the beginning of '99. and there was a lot of turbulence in that campaign, too. people forget, for instance, that george w. bush lost the new hampshire primary by 17 or 18 points.
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so there's a lot of settling out to do here. but i'm one who actually thinks that our political system is not too rough. you want to see people under pressure. you want to see them when things get a little difficult because when they get in the oval office things are going to get rough and they're going to get a little difficult. >> without actually giving me names -- i know you probably won't, of who your favorite is. >> right. >> which of the candidates do you find yourself agreeing with most on their policy statements? >> well -- >> it may not necessarily be the one that you would vote for. >> well, there's no single candidate right now about whom i can say that. i think we have some very good candidates in the race. i myself am enjoying for the first time in quite a long time just sort of watching the campaign as a voter, as obviously a committed republican, and i think they're debating the issues. that's important. i'd probably like to see a little bit more attention to foreign policy, but i understand that given the issues of domestic internal repair that the united states has to do that a lot of people are not focusing on foreign policy. but i'll just watch the debates
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and, you know, i'll make my choices later on. >> i mean, when the front-runner, herman cain, doesn't appear to know anything about china's nuclear policy, do you get itchy fingers? do you think maybe you should throw your hat in the ring, albeit belatedly? >> no, i certainly don't get itchy fingers about throwing my own hat in the ring. absolutely not. isn't that kind of a mixed metaphor? but no, i don't myself. what i see is someone who may have misspoken. i really don't know. i know that there were many times during the 2000 campaign when issues of did the governor know this or the governor know that? the president of the united states, the people who come to the presidency of the united states very often don't come with foreign policy experience, but they get it rather quickly. and so the important thing to look for in candidates is what do they stand for, what are their principles, do they understand the unique character of the united states and its unique role in the world?
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>> let's turn to your book. a fascinating read. >> thank you. >> a complex read. covers eight extraordinary years really at the start of the millennium. when you finished the book, what was your emotion when you finally signed off on it? what did you conclude about that period in your life? >> well, first of all, there was the relief that i finally finished the writing, which, as you know, can be quite trying. but essentially -- >> it's a big book, too. >> it is. well, piers, it's only 740-odd pages. and that's less than 100 pages a year because we were in office for eight years. so i think it's actually not that -- not that big a tome. but it is for me an opportunity to talk to people about what it's like to be in the white house, to be in the state department, to try to give people a glimpse of not just what the decisions were but how they were made and the distinctly human character of the people and being in those circumstances. we're all human beings. there are personalities. there are disagreements.
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but most importantly, people are working hard on behalf of the country. and i called it "no higher honor" because that's really the way that i feel about those years that i served. >> i've read all the books now by the chief protagonists of that period in the administration, and my conclusion of your thoughts on them, if i was boiling it down, would be you admire the president, president bush, you hated dick cheney, you tolerated donald rumsfeld, and you felt a bit sorry for colin powell. how have i done there? >> let's start over. i did indeed admire the president. there's no doubt about it. and i really do believe that he did an exceptional job under extraordinarily difficult circumstances. the vice president i have a high regard for. we simply didn't agree a lot of the time, and particularly in the second term. i think the vice president exhibited some disappointment in the turn that the foreign policy took in that second term and
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associates it with me and the state department, and that's fine. people can disagree, but i don't have any less regard for the vice president. as to don, don and i have been friends for a long time, and i know that don is a kind of irascible character. i think he did a fine job on many things as secretary of defense. we didn't agree ultimately about the course of the war in iraq, and that was ultimately settled. and colin powell is my friend, and he's a great patriot. he served as secretary of state at a time when we were at war, and the hard thing about being secretary of state when we are at war is that especially in the early phases the pentagon is first on. and so, yes, sometimes it was very hard being america's diplomat between 2001 and 2004. and i respect him for the job he did. >> i mean, you describe -- you say every public appearance with donald rumsfeld was a disaster.
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>> well, because -- well, the one in baghdad was a bit of a problem because i describe in baghdad that the president -- in the book that president bush had sent don and me to baghdad to sort of show unity between the defense department and the state department and don was impatient with the whole thing and, unfortunately, sort of came through in the press availability. and i'm afraid we wrote stories that we really didn't intend to write about how well we were getting along. and so, yeah, that one was a bit of a disaster. but you know, those things happen. and as i said, don and i remain friends. and it's awfully important for people to realize that you can have substantive differences, you can have intense debates, you can even have intense arguments, and you can still do it in a civil way where you may have personalities involved but it doesn't have to become personal. >> before we go to a break, very quickly, dick cheney said that he saw you crying in a professional situation. i found that very hard to believe.
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>> yeah, i find that kind of hard to believe, too. no. i don't think i went to the vice president crying about something in the press. it doesn't sound like me, and i'm pretty sure it didn't happen. >> no. i didn't -- it didn't sound like you at all to me. coming up after the break, i want to talk to you about the revolution in the middle east, the deaths of bin laden and gadhafi, and whether you feel the way you went about war in iraq triggered all this or actually was the way that it shouldn't have been done. sun life financialrating should be famous.d bad, we're working on it. so you're seriously proposing we change our name to sun life valley. do we still get to go skiing?
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reaction in libya to the demise of moammar gadhafi. and back with me now is the former secretary of state condoleezza rice, who famously found herself the object of gadhafi's weird affections. >> yes. >> dr. rice, it was a very
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bizarre setup where even when he left his palace they found this glorious scrapbook in your honor. and when you went to see him you actually write in the back -- i'm going to read this back to you. "at the end of the dinner gadhafi told me he'd made a videotape of me. uh-oh, i thought, what's this going to be? it was quite an innocent collection of photos of me with world leaders set to the music of a song called "black flower in the white house," written for me by a libyan composer. it was weird, but at least it wasn't raunchy." >> right. >> quite extraordinary. >> yes, quite extraordinary. and weird and a bit creepy. i had actually known that he had this fixation on me. a couple of foreign minister friends had told me. and also a couple of my staff. and so i was going to libya. my job was to go there. he had given up his weapons of mass destruction. he had paid reparations to the families of the victims of his terrorist acts. it was my job to go there, do a little bit of diplomatic business, and get out. and so that's what i did.
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but i have to say, i did have that terrible moment when he said that he had the videotape. i am just glad that it all came out all right. >> and he never made any kind of move on you, then? >> no, no. >> the object of his affections. >> no, absolutely not. >> being more serious about this, i mean, the end of gadhafi was a suitably gruesome end to a gruesome tyrant in many ways. when you saw the way that he was killed, you know, dragged out by the rebels and basically executed, what did you feel about that? there was a debate about whether it was the right thing, that it shouldn't have been allowed to happen. what did you think? >> well, revolutions are not pretty, and there are any number of circumstances in which the tyrant who stays too long and refuses to leave and when fear breaks down and -- on behalf of his people and the tables are turned, those ends are often very violent. and so it might not be the way that we sitting here in a stable democracy that's more than 200
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years old, almost 300 years old, might want things to happen, but revolutions aren't pretty. >> when you watch the extraordinary events of this year throughout the middle east, clearly there's a pattern of revolution driven from the ground up through mainly young people disaffected with their lot under these tyrants seizing control of their own destiny. and in libya in particular you saw the end of gadhafi driven by these pretty heroic rebels who decided to take him on and see him off. and the american military and the american administration, very much hands off. and the difference, of course, in cost was huge. the libya campaign cost $1.5 billion. iraq at its worst was costing almost that a week. very, very different way of going about the same objective of getting rid of a bad guy. do you look at what's happened to mubarak and gadhafi and slightly regret the way that you helped the administration go about iraq?
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>> well, the circumstances were fundamentally different, and the times were fundamentally different, and we went after saddam hussein because he was a security threat. he'd caused wars in the region. he'd used weapons of mass destruction. he was going after our aircraft. we didn't actually go after him to bring democracy to iraq. we brought -- we were going after him because he was a security threat. once we had deposed him, it was important to give the iraqi people a chance for a democratic future. but i think it would be a mistake to think that saddam hussein would have permitted an arab spring in iraq for even a moment. it would have been over in hours. we have seen how he deals with uprisings. the way that he dealt with the uprising in the south when he gassed the shiia or the kurds immediately after the gulf war in 1991, where he slaughtered hundreds and thousands of people. this -- moammar gadhafi was a monstrous leader. he was not saddam hussein either in terms of his reach, his capability, or his capacity for
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systematic brutality. and so saddam hussein was not going to fall by these means. and i am very glad that he's gone. and, in fact, it probably helped to stimulate gadhafi's decision that he would give up his weapons of mass destruction, coming as it did right on the heels of the deposing saddam. and i'm awfully glad that we were able to disarm him of his most dangerous weapons before this revolution because gadhafi sitting in his bunker with dangerous weapons might have been -- there might have been a very different outcome. >> what was the biggest mistake of the whole iraq campaign? the reliance publicly on establishing that he had weapons of mass destruction and the kind of drip, drip, drip, you call it the sort of embarrassment, really, of the president becoming almost a wmd fact checker. >> yes. >> which was clearly a pretty degrading experience and deeply flawed. and in the end it turned out the public reasons for going to war with saddam were totally
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incorrect, whereas had you done what the administration did here with gadhafi and say we're going after saddam because he's a bad man and it will be good for the region, at least you could sit back now and say, well, we got rid of him for the reasons we said we were going to get rid of him. >> well, i think we did make those reasons but frankly we didn't emphasize them. and i talk about this in the book. first of all, we believed he had weapons of mass destruction and that was the immediate threat. particularly in the aftermath of 9/11 when you worried about some nexus between terrorism and weapons of mass destruction. weapons of mass destruction were not a theoretical probability with saddam hussein. after all, he'd used them before. he'd been seen in 1991 after gulf war one to have a crude nuclear device in perhaps a year. and so we believed that the weapons of mass destruction case was solid. but, as i said, i don't think it was wise to have any of us but particularly the president debating or defending an
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intelligence nugget. did he buy uranium ore in niger, what were aluminum tubes for, why was he buying so much chlorine? because the strategic argument was that this was a cancer in the region, saddam hussein, who had caused to massive wars in the region, who had tried to assassinate a president of the united states, who had put 400,000 of his people in mass graves, was breaking out of the constraints under which he had been put in 1991, and was reconstituting, according to our intelligence agencies, his weapons of mass destruction. that broader strategic case, i think, got lost in, as you call it, the drip, drip, drip of intelligence nuggets. >> let's take a break and come back. i want to talk to you about the moment you heard that osama bin laden was dead, the man who committed the 9/11 atrocity on your watch. my sinus symptoms come with a cough
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back now with my special guest, dr. condoleezza rice. dr. rice, i'm getting lots of tweets wile we had the break there saying i wish that she would run for president. >> well, that's very nice, but
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thanks, i'll pass on that honor. >> is that a total lifetime pass, or could you see yourself tempted back? >> i'm really a policy person. i'm not a politician. and i've been through a campaign. i know what that takes. and i'll leave it to others. >> but you're not entirely ruling it out? >> piers, that's a no. >> let me ask you, where were you when you heard that osama bin laden had been killed? because for you personally, never mind professionally, it must have been an extraordinary moment in your life, having spent so long trying to catch him after 9/11. >> it was, indeed. i had just come in actually to washington, d.c. i had landed that evening from california, and i flipped on the television, and they were getting ready to have the news conference, and i thought the president of the united states doesn't go into the east room this time of night. i think they got bin laden. and i was so gratified. i was grateful to president obama for taking a difficult
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decision because by all reports it wasn't a certainty that osama bin laden was there, and i was very glad that i think we had left the infrastructure in place to make that moment possible. the courier, for instance, who in 2007 we learned of this courier who eventually gave up bin laden, and so -- or led us to bin laden, and so this was a great story of american perseverance over ten years. said to foes in particular, we don't give up until the job is done. >> who was the first person you told when you heard the news? >> well, i actually had a couple of people with me, traveling with me. one of whom had worked with me at the state department. we immediately talked about it, and it was a really very -- very gratifying moment because even though i don't believe that al qaeda is done as an organization, in many ways the organization that did 9/11 is a very different organization now.
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it's been cut down to size. not just through the kill of bin laden, but also the many field generals like khalid shaikh mohammed and abu zubaydah who were taken off the battlefield. so this is a good story for american perseverance. >> do you miss high office, or are you just relieved to be out of it all? because the book details again and again the sacrifice that you have to make, like so many people at a high level of white house administration. you talk about envying your driver because every weekend he would be off doing stuff with his family or having fun and you were off around the world on another trip. so i guess mixed feelings? >> well, of course, it was a wonderful experience, and it was a very high honor, as i said. but i was glad to be done. eight years is plenty. especially eight years under the circumstances under which we served. but i am so happy to be back at stanford. and i'm a university professor again, which is really my vocation and my calling in life.
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and i don't -- i don't miss it. i like reading the newspaper and saying, oh, isn't that interesting and moving on to the next thing. so it's really quite nice. >> very quickly, if i was to pin you down and say your biggest triumph in the eight years and your biggest regret, what would you say? >> well, clearly, associating the united states of america firmly with the freedom agenda in the middle east after 60 years of trying to trade democracy for stability and getting neither. i'm very proud of that speech in cairo in june of 2005 that set a different tone based on president bush's second inaugural. in terms of regrets, of course, there will be many over the years, and we'll see how this all plays out. it may surprise you that in many ways the thing i most wish we had started earlier was the work on immigration reform. we were going to work with mexico to really take that issue on. i think 9/11 for very good reasons didn't allow us the time and energy and focus to do it.
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and when the comprehensive immigration bill finally came up in 2007, it failed even though jon kyl and john mccain and george w. bush and ted kennedy all wanted it. and we're still fighting the immigration issue in ways that i think are getting increasingly more difficult and really threatening what is one of america's really great strengths, which is drawing people here from all over the world who just want a better chance in life. >> well, dr. rice, it's been a pleasure, as always, talking to you. it's a terrific book, fascinating read. it's called "a memoir of my years in washington: no higher honor." and certainly the aspect of honor comes through on every page. and i thank you for your service and for coming on the show again. >> thank you. >> really appreciate it. >> thanks so much. thanks for having me. >> we'll be right back. advil® . the job's tough, advil® is tougher. advil® never lets me down. [ male announcer ] take action. take advil®. advil® never lets me down. when you're a sports photographer, things can get out of control pretty quickly.
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america electorate wants to change the way this country chooses presidential candidates. taking it on the line. is a third party really what america needs? joining me is khalil bird, a former strat jiegist for democr and republicans. and a former marine who served in iraq. gentlemen, welcome. what i hit, serious ideas, and the concept really is based on people are fed up with all this wrangling in washington,
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paralyzing and nothing getting done. is that in a nutshell where we are with this? >> you hit it right on the head. what we're doing in americans elect is removing the barrier to presidential nomination. americans elect is going to be putting forward the first ever nonpartisan ticket. it's going to be on the ballot in all 50 states in november 2012. it's going to owe its ballot line not to the two party lines. and their special interest. we're allowing american people in to dominate a third ticket. >> this is a pretty mad idea in many ways. people are saying, come on, this can never get traction and yet, you are getting a lot of support. lots of people online coming behind you. you are beginning to get into states and so on. do you think you can actually achieve america-wide success here? are you going to end up come election with all the states allowing this or not? >> coming to your show today, it's already happening. millions of people have already come to americanselect.org. people have signed our petitions
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all over the country, 1.9 million people. to put us on the states. we're on the ballot in all the swing states, ohio, michigan, florida. so it's in play. but what are we trying to achieve? the american people looking at the crop of candidates that they have right now are unsatisfied with what they're seeing. they're don't feel like the candidates are dealing with what they care about in their lives, jobs, homes, communities. what they're looking for is to put, we think, a bipartisan ticket on the ballot next year. so the idea of a democrat and a republican running together, putting -- running for the presidency and the issues people care about above party this year works for the american people. >> the concept is whoever wins this nomination via the online process has to choose either an independent or a member of the opposing party as their running mate. so it becomes a completely transparent, bipartisan scenario. >> that's just it. it's asking people to put the country in front of the party. reach across the political
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space. the first real decision somebody makes when they're running for president is who their vp is going to be. so what a gesture it is to reach across the space and show you're going to be able to govern in a way that's not completely partisan. there's precedent for this. let's remember in '08, there was a lot of talk mccain was going to run with lieberman. he couldn't sell that ticket to the party. in '04. there was a lot of talk that kerrey was going to run with mccain. as americans why can't we see a nonpartisan ticket that really is focused on governing? the only reason we can't see it is because the parties won't allow it. that's not a good enough reason. >> in a dream world, would the person who wins this nomination be a big figure? would it be a michael bloomberg, maybe a chris christie, a george clooney, who knows which way it may go. do you need to have that kind of powerful figurehead for this to really work? >> what's so interesting about it the americans elect platform gives the american people the opportunity to select leaders
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from business, from government. people who expressed leadership roughly the way the 44 presidents have. as they make that decision, we actually, the organization, eliminates the false calendar. chris christie was in the race up until the point he got to the end of october in a false deadline in florida, meaning he couldn't get on the ballot, imposed on him the kind of thing the american people don't care about anymore. they know the two parties and specifically the primary process isn't serving up the leadership and the candidates they want. what americans elect is allowing them to do is select the issues they care about and put forward the kind of leaders whom they think can solve the problems right now. >> where's the money coming from? who's funding all this? >> we've had over 3,000 donors up until this point. the money comes only from individual contributors. no special interest groups, to -- no pacts, no industry organizations. it's solely funded through individual contributions. that money goes to two things. 50 state ballot access, which is removing that barrier to entry, and it goes to building out americanselect.org so we have a
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platform where americans can get engaged on the issues and the candidates. and in a less analog way. we're not putting kernels of corn into jars in iowa. we're asking the folks to talk about the issues and putting forward unique candidates. >> it's a fascinating concept. it is getting a bit of traction. it will be really fascinating if i come and interview you again in three or four months and you're beginning to really fly. then it gets really interesting. >> piers, this is the week where people can go and start putting up candidates' names. they can do meet-ups around the country. they can give a dollar to -- >> if they're watching, if they want to get involved in your caper, as it is at the moment, may become a more serious caper, where do they go? >> it's already a serious caper. we've got a million people who have come to americanselect.org. thousands of volunteers across the country. folks come to americanselect.org. check this out. it's going to give you as a voter more power than you've ever had to participate in a in a meaningful way in a presidential primary. >> nonpartisan, not for profit. >> not for profit. nonpartisan. >> i wish you luck, gentlemen. thank you very much.
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they need me in this winchester, curly. saw a ranch house burning last night. >> you don't understand, kid. you're under arrest. >> the clip for "stagecoach" with john wane. he starred in an amazing 142
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films the most by any actor in history. recently some of his most valuable possessions were put on auction by his son, ethan. he joins me now. welcome. >> thank you, piers. >> your father, to call him an icon is almost an understatement. he's sort of a part of american history, isn't he? >> yeah. >> what's it been like being his son? how would you summarize your experience? because you were 17 when he died. >> i was 17 when he died. right after i was born we moved. we moved down to the beach. we didn't live in the spotlight. i didn't grow up -- i knew we got a lot more mail than some of my friends. other than that our life was very normal. >> what kind of man was he? i mean, not the man we all know from the movies. criminal -- because that was a rough, tough guy who took no crap from anyone. what was he like when the door closed? >> he was -- he was very similar in a lot of ways. but what you didn't see on the screen is how kind and loving and humorous he was.
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>> ans made by anybody. there can barely be a moment when you don't flip through your television when your dad doesn't appear on screen. that must be a bittersweet thing. i heard nancy sinatra the other day talking about what it's like if you're the daughter of frank sinatra. everywhere you go, the memory lives on for the fans, for the children, it's hard. >> i can't speak for my brothers and sisters or for nancy. but for me, i had a really fun time period with my father. he was a little older by the time i was born. maybe we had more of a grandfather/grandson relationship. he was very relaxed. he wasn't as uptight as maybe you would think john wayne would be at home. i had a lot of freedom. i also had a lot of responsibility to deal with as a young boy. he had sure i had things to be responsible for. but life with him was an adventure. you know, we'd be on location or
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we'd be on his boat, "the wild goose" in mexico or canada or alaska. the rest of the time we'd be at home. and i think i preferred to be either on location or on the boat and i think he preferred the same thing. >> was he actually any good with a gun? >> he was very good with a gun. let me tell you, he was very good with a gun and he was very good with a horse because he was a hard worker. so when he was at home and his parents would argue, and it made him uncomfortable, he focused on academics and athletics. that got him out of the house. it got him a football scholarship at the university of southern california. he loved to body surf. he hurt his shoulder down in balboa surfing, lost that football scholarship. got a job on the back lot at fox studios and he became a prized prop man assistant. if things blew into the set they knew he'd go get everything swept up or cleaned up or get the ducks back in the cages for the next take.
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he was a big, handsome, fun, athletic guy and they liked him and they ended up giving him a chance to be in a film and he didn't squander that opportunity either. he worked as hard as he possibly could to become comfortable in front of the camera and to capture pieces of maybe acquaintances or if he saw something we liked or worked well on his screen he put that in his tool belt and kept it and built this man, this persona called john wayne. it lasted for six decades. >> you talk so fondly about him. the day that he died, you're 17. that's a hard age for a son to lose his father. what was your recollections of that time in your life? >> you know, it was -- it's always a strange time for young men when they're at that age. i knew my father was ill. i drove him to the hospital. and he never came out. but, you know, it was sort of surrealistic to be sitting
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there, holding hands with my brothers and sisters. we were all with him. and he took his last breath, and that was it. i never expected that to happen. i always thought he would come out of that hotel room -- or that hospital room, pardon me. so it was -- it was a difficult time. >> yeah. because you kind of imagine that john wayne was sort of invulnerable. >> yeah. >> he never lost. >> yeah. >> he never died in the movies. he always got the bad guy. he was always the last man standing. >> well, you know, i lived with him for the last few years. you know, he was suffering and hurting a bit from the cancer. it's not a pleasant disease. we continued to fight the disease in his name through the john wayne cancer foundation. getting breathing treatments and to be there with him when he was vulnerable, it did give me a different -- you know, a different view of the man than other people had. >> what's the biggest misconception, do you think, of your father? >> i don't know if there is.
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i guess people don't realize the depth and the breadth of the man. maybe today they think of him as gruff or whatever. you need to go back and listen to what he said or watch him getting grilled by the harvard lampoon or listen to some of his interviews or watch him on lucy or "laugh in" or some of the things that he did where you got more of his personality. >> what would he have made of the modern political state and financial state of the america? >> piers, we're all shaking our heads. >> i imagine he would have been pretty furious, wouldn't he? >> he'd be upset, of course he would. >> one of the great patriots in american history, your father. >> yeah. >> anti-communist to an extreme degree. >> the country was good to him. he knew this was a land of opportunity. he lived it. he came from small town iowa and made it big in hollywood. he worked hard.
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he reaped the benefits of that hard work. and, you know, i think he'd want these guys to put party politics aside and get to work and maybe have a longer term view for our country than quarter by quarter, or election to election. >> what's been your favorite movie of your father's? if you could actually watch one again. >> well, mine changes all the time. because, you know, i'm 49 now. i've just gone back to work for my father. it changes. you see the searchers. you see "red river." you see "the quiet man." they're epic, they're timeless. then i'll see something where he was younger than me. my age. it's fun to be able to go spend a half -- an hour and a half with somebody that's been gone for 30 years. and spend an hour and a half with my father. seeing him at a different time in his life. >> who's the nearest thing to john wayne in the movies now do you think?
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there aren't many cowboys. >> i couldn't even begin to guess. >> is there anyone that kind of represents, that embodies, perhaps, the american spirit like your father did? >> i almost feel like you could answer that question better than i could. >> i was thinking about it as i was asking the question. it's not easy. it's not easy. it's fascinating. because your father represented so much, really, that was great about america. it's interesting there's no actor today that probably has that same immediate recognition of i stand for great american values. it's interesting, isn't it? >> i don't know if there's another actor who's had the opportunity to, you know, create a space for themselves like john wayne was able to. we have great actors, you know, they play one part or another, and we all enjoy it. we all believe them when they're doing it. but who owns that space that john wayne owned? i don't know. >> every kid in my school in england -- this shows you the global appeal of your father, could do an impersonation of
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your dad. i could do it. get off your horse and drink your milk. i doubt he ever said that. can you do a john wayne? >> i can't. >> you never tried? >> i'm not going to do it on national television. >> let's take a break. i want to come back -- this is going to be great. you're going to bring on some of the possessions at the auction which raised over $5 million. i'm actually going to hold john wayne's oscar. that's going to be quite a moment. an accident doesn't have to slow you down. with better car replacement,
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i mean to kill you in one minute, ned, or see you hanged in ft. smith at judge parker's convenience. which will it be? >> i call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man. >> feel your hand you son of a [ bleep ]. >> that is your father's legendary film of "true grit." and your father won an oscar, i than, and this is it. i have never held an oscar.
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it is as heavy as people warned me they were. it is a real big chunk of gold-plated glory, isn't it. what an amazing bit of memorabilia. >> that meant a lot to him. >> winning the oscar for best actor, because it is the ultimate in the profession. isn't it? >> he had been nominated a couple of times but that was the first time he won. so very special. >> these are the items in the auction that raised over $5 million. how much does that divvy out to charitable stuff? >> the auction was put on by john wayne enterprises so that -- that's the family owned company. so the auction proceeds go to the john wayne enterprises and that sponsors the cancer foundation. licensing, fund-raising and team duke. so the auction catalogs went directly to the foundation. the auction dvds went directly to the foundation and some auction items went directly to the foundation. but the proceeds from the auction went into john wayne enterprises, the mission is to preserve and protect the image.
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>> this is your father's passport which is date of birth, may 26th, 1907, and awarded in 1970. great picture of him there. >> yes. >> and what is fascinated where he went even then and he was a well traveled man. >> always on the move. >> visas from australia, hong kong and portugal and all around the world. >> yes, greece, panama and mexico. >> this is something he would be proud of. this is the congressional honor medal? what is this? >> this is the congressional gold medal and the highest civilian award. >> civilian version of the medal of honor. >> correct. that would be the military version. be careful, because it might fall out of there. >> that is an amazing thing as well. >> yeah, yeah. >> this is his army gear. which movie is that from? >> this is from the "green beret" and he was colonel kirby. so this is a great jacket from that film. >> actually the beret went for an extraordinary sum of money, $179,000? >> yes.
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yes. >> who is buying all of this? who deem this kind of money? >> i have my suspicions about the green beret. >> what are they? >> well, there was an individual who came out who is a former special forces, and he had done well, and i have a feeling that he may have bought that to put it in one of the special forces museums. >> really? >> yeah. >> this is of course one of the defining hats of your father. which movie? >> "horse soldiers"," she wore a yellow ribbon" and "undefeated." i believe. yeah. >> i have always wanted to wear john wayne's hat. here's my chance. god, he has a smaller head than me. that is really disturbing. >> piers is a huge man. >> this is a disturbing revelation, i have a bigger head than john wayne. wow. i won't even try the boots on. these are the cowboy boots. >> he had smaller feet. >> what size? >> well, custom made, and my foot slides in there, and it is about an 11 1/2. >> well, i had smaller feet than
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john wayne, but a bigger head. >> for a famous cowboy, what he wore was not overly embellished, but stylish and handsome and an example of what he wore. >> i think the legacy really is that everybody probably wishes now that were more people like john wayne. >> i agree with you. >> actually, it was john wayne and his type who really created america in this modern incarnation. >> if you look at the programming today and the advertisements today, they're leaning that way. and you have an insurance company talking about responsibility and doing the right thing and there is a hunger for that in the united states. look, he came to represent the world's ideal of what an american man should be and how he should handle himself in certain circumstances and situations, and we all aspire to be that type of person. so i hope that these auction items take that motivation, that in

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